The Doyen Of Economics Podcasting On Death, Lockdown, And The Art Of Socratic Dialogue
By Alice Temnick
This episode of The Jolly Swagman Podcast, hosted by Joseph Noel Walker took place on April 3, 2020, with EconTalk host Russ Roberts as guest. Though recorded early into the pandemic, their conversation remains relevant today. Walker and Roberts converse freely, often about what constitutes meaningful conversation and their shared craft of podcasting. Enjoy this meandering dialogue and the nuggets shared about influential books, facing death, probability, economics, meditation, Adam Smith, and more.
1- What does Roberts reveal about the art of podcasting, the success of EconTalk and about “scratching his own itches” regarding topics covered?
2- Why does Russ feel strongly that understanding randomness and numbers is worth the difficult effort? Do you believe we can learn epistemological humility (being aware of our limitations and the uncertainties about what we know)?
3- If “we are patent-seeking story telling animals – spinning narratives to each other that fit our world view”, is learning best stimulated by multiple stories or when presented in multiple ways from different people? What has worked best for you?
4- The Precautionary Principle (better safe than sorry!) suggests avoiding a risk of widespread and irreversible harm. How do you square this with the lockdown versus virus impact dilemma? How would you answer Roberts’ question, ‘could the Precautionary Principle cease to apply’? (The most recent EconTalk with Taleb may also be useful here.)
5- “To philosophize is to learn how to die.” “Why do we care about what will happen after we die”? Roberts and Walker both jest that the death part of this conversation and consideration of Montaigne’s essay likely turned a lot of listeners off. How did you react and what are your thoughts about discomfort in facing mortality?
6- What characteristics differentiate favorite or memorable podcast episodes to you as a listener? Is there anything additional you would share with Walker or Roberts from the listener perspective?
7- Roberts admits to resisting the urge to be loud and angry. How might Adam Smith’s wisdom, great storytelling and reminder of “man’s desire to be loved and lovely” help us all resist this urge?
READER COMMENTS
Ken Perepelkin
Oct 25 2020 at 2:32pm
I’m surprised no one has commented on this podcast yet as it was truly an enjoyable listen.
It’s always illuminating when we take off our customary masks and for this podcast Russ’s interviewer mask was off allowing a very relaxed dialogue on his evolving role as a podcaster along with some intimate bits on his own personal development.
The discussion about uncertainty and the precautionary principle to me were especially salient points given our current life under the Covid 19 pandemic. I had previously listened to the most recent Econtalk episode with Nassim Taleb and found his righteous self assurance on the governmental response to the pandemic being the right one without considering societal long term consequences quite annoying, (yes yes, I know all about fat tailed curves) but put in the context of his adherence to the precautionary principle this was understandable. Happily this podcast’s discussion addressed those issues in a more satisfactory way.
I also very much enjoyed the parts about the meditative retreat. I have never done this before but I have spent weeks alone in the wilderness many times here in Canada and am intimately aware of how important these activities are for self awareness. The difference with those experiences discussed on the podcast and my own personal ones are that I didn’t have to worry about adhering to a no speaking rule as there was no one to break it with.
Long periods in this state (in my opinion) help reveal some of our deepest concepts of being and connection. For me the strangest effects occur when I return to civilization. In the wilderness your conscious self begins to merge with the environment, you are hyper aware of sounds, smells and motion in a barely describable way. When you return to the hubbub of normal life the noise is phenomenal and I don’t just mean civilization’s noises, but people’s noises. Faces are open books, y0u can read people in a way that’s inaccessible otherwise. In our regular everyday life we blot out this noise. When our senses are sharpened by meditation or isolation we can examine in minute detail things we would have ignored previously, including the muted emotional undertones and subconscious signals of people we speak with. Commercials on TV are particularly jarring and compelling after a spell away, revealing how much power the attention merchants have. It gives understanding to why we have to filter the noise out so thoroughly in the first place. I’d recommend these meditation or isolation retreats to anyone curious about their sensory environment, their relationship to it and to their connection with other people in general.
Thanks for doing this podcast Russ. And thank you for hosting Econtalk so well.
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